The Pledge of Allegiance

[Nakaichiro]

Ya Ya, brainwashing is an extreme term to use to get a point across, but true brain washing is not very realistic. It is extremely rare. But hopefully you understand the real meaning behind the term in this context.

That is, it plants a seed in your mind. Just like going to a christian school and being taught to say the Lord's prayer plants a seed in your mind at a young age. Whether you know it or not, the sheer fact that you have recited the PoA over and over at a young age influences you slightly. You are more likely to believe in what your country feeds you because somewhere deep down inside you feel that it is wrong to not be patriotic.

You may be a free thinker and not recite the pledge every day, quite frankly those fanatic types scare the crap out of me because they have the potential to do very silly things.
I am not saying that you will believe everything that they feed you without question. But even when you question it, there is a thought at the back of your mind that jumps up and shouts.... BE A PATRIOT!!!

The government knows this and they also know that it will afford them a couple of get out of jail free cards, and also allow them to push that boundary a little further than they would have without all of that seed planting of patriotism.

So the question you must ask yourself is this. If you know that because of this PoA and other things like it, that you and American society allow your government to get away with slightly more than they would without that seed. How free are you? This amazing country that is the founder of "Democracy and freedom". The government knows that it gets away with more than it should due to the patriotism card and it milks it whenever it can.

Patriotism is a good thing, but being taught something like patriotism before your mind is old enough to fully grasp it will always put seeds too deep to ever remove by maturity and free thinking. That is why the government make sure they start the PoA at as young an age as possible. And that is why the question is very valid. How much does it actually infringe on the laws, ethos and constitution that your country is based on.

[RNB]

Originally Posted by Nakaichiro

Ya Ya, brainwashing is an extreme term to use to get a point across, but true brain washing is not very realistic. It is extremely rare. But hopefully you understand the real meaning behind the term in this context.

That is, it plants a seed in your mind. Just like going to a christian school and being taught to say the Lord's prayer plants a seed in your mind at a young age. Whether you know it or not, the sheer fact that you have recited the PoA over and over at a young age influences you slightly. You are more likely to believe in what your country feeds you because somewhere deep down inside you feel that it is wrong to not be patriotic.

You may be a free thinker and not recite the pledge every day, quite frankly those fanatic types scare the crap out of me because they have the potential to do very silly things.
I am not saying that you will believe everything that they feed you without question. But even when you question it, there is a thought at the back of your mind that jumps up and shouts.... BE A PATRIOT!!!

Have you ever looked at a beautiful woman and thought about having sex with her?

I would hope so. I have done it many times. There is always that thought in the back of my mind that I should just go over to that bitch, bend her over, and hump her into submission.

Also, have you ever thought about just failing everything? Like, you are a good student who gets great grades, but you kinda want to know what life would be like afterward? Maybe jumping of a building would be interesting.

Many questions like that are in the back of our minds. Keep in mind, they are in the back seat and they aren't the driver. I would never want to do the first example. One, if I think for a moment I would get no happiness out of it. I would experience an orgasm, but then I would have to face the consequences of such a thing.

That is called reasoning. I realize that all these thoughts in the back of my mind are in the back of my mind for a reason. They have no decision on what I do. Reasoning does. Society does have influences on the questions you ask in the back of your mind. Those do not drive you. Will drives you. If your will is based in reason then everything else takes the back seat.

[Nakaichiro]

Your problem is that you are dealing in absolute reasoning. When in reality hardly anything can ever be deemed to be absolute. Let me explain.

That is called reasoning. I realize that all these thoughts in the back of my mind are in the back of my mind for a reason. They have no decision on what I do. Reasoning does. Society does have influences on the questions you ask in the back of your mind. Those do not drive you. Will drives you. If your will is based in reason then everything else takes the back seat.

If you believe that then you do not fully understand how the human mind reasons things out. For instance, your example of the hot girl walking by. The thought that pops up about going over and bending her is not the influencing factor, it is in fact the main question that other influencing factors will now tug over.

Influencing factors may be:
Are other people around,
Do you care about other people watching,
Do you care about public rejection,
Is she giving you signals,
Are you alone,
Is she walking with a friend,
Is she walking with another guy,
Are you with anyone at the time,
Are you dating anyone at the time,
Do you care about cheating on your significant other,
Does she have a ring on her finger,
Do you care if she has a ring on her finger.
and many many more.

Now lets assume that you do not care about cheating on your significant other, for whatever reason. Maybe you recently had a fight, maybe you guys have an open relationship, whatever. If the hottie propositioned you to go to her place which is round the corner your mind then goes into mental reasoning mode. Her place cuts out all of the public checks, her propositioning you cuts out the friends and most other stuff. Now the only checks left are:
Are you dating anyone,
How much does that person mean to you,
Does she have a ring on her finger,
Do you really care.

Many of these questions are going to pop into the back of your head and weigh in on the decision at hand. If you care about the person that you are dating then you would be more inclined to say no, if you do not, then you would be more inclined to say yes.
If you were brought up to never ever fall in with a married woman and she has a ring on her finger, then you would say no. If the notion had never been explained to you once in your whole life, then it would not even factor into your decision making conundrum. The problem is that there are not just yes and no's here, there are many stages in between.

For instance, who told you about never getting involved with a married woman? Was it a street urchin.... once while passing by. Then its not going to be so powerful in your mind. Was it your best friend a few times.... now its getting stronger. Was it your entire group of friends that believe in that moral.... stronger still. Was it your parents? Did they drill it into you? Who drilled it into them? If they had never been drilled would you have been drilled to the same extent, or even at all?

This is an example of a key value that you have been taught from a young age. There are many others, like don't kill, don't steal, etc....
The key question is whether or not to bang that particular girl, the values and circumstances that weigh in on that decision are infinite and each will have a weighting depending on the upbringing and circumstance of that individual.
So now that we understand that every single decision in our lives is reasoned out in a very complicated way, usually with the values of the person.

I realize that all these thoughts in the back of my mind are in the back of my mind for a reason. They have no decision on what I do. Reasoning does.

What exactly does reasoning do? It reasons out all of the variables into a solution. The voices in the back of your mind, however small, are all part of that reasoning process.

Society does have influences on the questions you ask in the back of your mind. Those do not drive you. Will drives you. If your will is based in reason then everything else takes the back seat.

What I am talking about is that society poses the question, your memories, values and upbringing weigh in the variables and your mind reasons out the answer. Patriotism and the PoA are in your mind because of your upbringing, and like it or not, it is a factor in any reasoning that you might do around the government's choices.

So again I will ask the question. If your government knows that it is planting the seeds in your mind at a young age. Seeds that they know will help influence your decision making in their favor. How does that impact your opinion on your constitution and how complete it is?

America is full of constitutional double standards. It believes that it is the leader of the free world, and that its government and constitution should be a shining example to the rest of the world..... America is fooling the average American.... And SHE KNOWS IT!

*EDIT: insert quote correctly.